#643 - "Listen Till the End"

[MajordomoTom]

Ok, I'm completely LAS on this one ... not even sure I'm starting the correct step 1 on this.

Would appreciate a 'nudge' and probably won't be submitting (or will definitely be a "no, not a solo solve" submission).

Thx,
Tom

[pamster]

Ok, I'm completely LAS on this one ... not even sure I'm starting the correct step 1 on this.

Would appreciate a 'nudge' and probably won't be submitting (or will definitely be a "no, not a solo solve" submission).

Thx,
Tom

Me, too. If you get a nudge, can you pass it along? Thanks!

[Prozach]

I think i got it. waiting for confirmation. Some good nudges helped me with this one.

EDIT: Confirmed.

[photosurrealism]

I'm still clueless, unfortunately. Could use a hint if there are any out there.

[wjchatto]

Need some help on this one, a nudge would be great. 3+ days and I'm nowhere.

[ky-mike]

Write-up on this one on Crossword Fiend - https://crosswordfiend.com/2020/09/29/m ... ore-118157

[bhamren]

I did not get this one, but like I have said before, when I see the explanation I can always say it would have been possible for me to get it with a Matt Gaffney puzzle. This is another learning experience to look closer at the clues (in this case the ", say" as well as "Listen" in the title and "heard" in the solving instructions). Pretty masterful craftsmanship.

[Bird Lives]

It would have helped if when I was stumped the oldies station had been playing the Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson hit from 1983. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLEhh_XpJ-0)

It also would have helped if I’d remembered Matt’s tricks, including these:

1. The meta can be a new look at a familiar crossword trope, convention, or cliche, thus making it a crossword about crosswords — i.e., a meta meta. This one used and transformed the convention of using “say” in clues instead of “for example.”

2. Keys to the meta can reside in the clues, not just in the grid.

3. Theme answers lead to other entries in the grid.

4. Clues can have more than one relevant answer, one to be entered in the usual place, the other to be found elsewhere.

5. The meta may be based on homophones and puns.

6. The words in the grid may link to things outside of the world in the grid. You may need Google.

Here’s what I wound up with. The words in boxes are the answers to the eight clues ending in “say.”

[BarbaraK]

So 40D PHONETIC alphabet and 71A DELTA (D in the standard NATO etc phonetic alphabet) had me sure that was where to start.

Then that parenthetical on 17A made perfect sense. The 'end' of GIBRALTAR is AR - Alfa Romeo in the phonetic alphabet but pronounced slightly differently if you're talking about the car. Yes, that absolutely had to be the first step. But then India Sierra? India Oscar? (Does India have Oscar awards? Yes. Anyone in the puzzle ever win one? Not that I saw.) And Papa Sierra? And couldn't even find any other Italian car references in the puzzle. But it still took a long long time to let that one go.

Then there were the four grid entries that sound like a single letter - BEE, EWE, ELLE, and INN. Thought that had to be relevant too. It was while staring at them that I finally noticed that three of the four had clues ending in ", say" and went looking for others.

I really need to remember to watch out for the alternate answer to a clue mechanism. I've seen that enough I should have thought of it sooner.

[Jacksull]

When it became clear that we were dealing with a phonetic meta (i.e. immediately), I threw in the towel. I have problems with puzzles that involve music, phonetics. accents. I try Pete Muller's musical metas to develop some skills, but without much success.

My negative attitude prevented me from seeing the the word say in the clues, but I don't think I would have gotten this one anyway.

[Big Mac]

Didn't get close, but I really appreciate the construction of this. Fitting these elements together in one grid is really something to marvel.

[markhr]

Big fat DNF for me. Didn't catch on to the significance of certain clues until way too late.
Sometimes I do envy people who have solving groups -- at least during week 4 or 5.

[photosurrealism]

Ugh. I was really close, but I couldn't close the deal.

[Hector]

ALTAR RAIN vehicle slowed me down. Would prefer RANG to RAIN. But otherwise bravissimo.

[Beth Tyrpin]

I did almost everything BarbaraK mentioned. Tried metaphors and idioms. Really thought I was on the right track with Mac or PC, Inn or hotel, rain or shine, Ken or Barbie (Lena/Halle), Elle or Vogue, pass or play, bee or ant (wasp), and roux and ?. Finally saw and heard Ruby. It was very hard to stick to solo solving this week. Not as hard as the week I gave up a huge streak. It’s only a puzzle. It’s only a puzzle. It’s only a puzzle.

[TMart]

I got lost down an anagram rabbit hole for quite a while. “Listen” anagrams to inlets (strait?), enlist (the troops?) and forms part of Palestine (Texas city?). I spent so long researching the cast of “Do the Right Thing” to find another one that when I finally noticed all the “says” in the clues, “Roux Bee” Dee jumped out at me. I also would have liked “rang” instead of “rain” but once I learned how to pronounce Mackinac, it wasn’t a problem to figure out.

[Bird Lives]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the rabbit hole I first dug into -- the sounds at the ends of the long entries. I saw OOPS and quickly spotted OH NO. Surely there would be other such pairs. ALTAR (in sound, not spelling) could be linked with UNDO. Of course, that was as far as it went. But I still like OOPS / OH NO.

[Streroto]

Not in a million years.

[TMart]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the rabbit hole I first dug into -- the sounds at the ends of the long entries. I saw OOPS and quickly spotted OH NO. Surely there would be other such pairs. ALTAR (in sound, not spelling) could be linked with UNDO. Of course, that was as far as it went. But I still like OOPS / OH NO.

I was there as well. Many mini-rabbits as well as the big one.

[MajordomoTom]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the rabbit hole I first dug into -- the sounds at the ends of the long entries. I saw OOPS and quickly spotted OH NO. Surely there would be other such pairs. ALTAR (in sound, not spelling) could be linked with UNDO. Of course, that was as far as it went. But I still like OOPS / OH NO.

I was playing with TROOPS/ ROUX and ANTONIO and OHNO and other similar phonetic rabbit holes.

But I knew that wasn't the right path, it was going to be a "one step" and that's not how week 4 is going to play, so ...

Got a slight "look at the clues" and was able to find the 8 "says" and those answers, but got stuck at that point.

I'm starting to understand Mr. Gaffney's way of thinking, hoping in another 6 months or so I might start getting some of these on my own.

T