#629 - "Good for You"

An excellent puzzle written by one of the innovators of the meta crossword format. It comes out every Friday at noon and increases in difficulty throughout the month. Available for modest subscription (worth every cent) here: www.xwordcontest.com
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Jacksull
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#61

Post by Jacksull »

I’m betting that this will go down as one of the least popular MGWCC puzzles. Many solvers will complain that there is no clear connection between the themers and a single vitamin. Others will point out that the grid is really not necessary to solve the meta.

I must have been in sync with Matt. The vitamin connection was apparent, and when I wrote out A,B,C,D,E,K, BAKED A CAKE jumped out.
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spotter
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#62

Post by spotter »

I got messed up with things like Potassium, Omega3, Iron etc.
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Bird Lives
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#63

Post by Bird Lives »

I have often missed solutions that require Google. I just assume that puzzles are self-contained — islands of wordplay, like anagrams, puns, jokes, and poems, with only a tenuous connection to the real world. This was no exception. (Also, I had no Internet till this afternoon, an outage that severely limited my Googling.)

I was also at a disadvantage because I don’t take vitamins. Years ago, I read some piece — a meta-analysis, or maybe a summary of many meta-analyses — i.e, a meta-meta analysis — that said the evidence of benefits was not robust, or maybe just a bust. I don’t bake cakes either, though that phrase was my guess. I didn’t submit it because in my mind’s ear I still hear the voice of my junior high math teacher, Jiminy Cricket-like, saying, “If you can’t show your work, the answer doesn’t count.”

Finally, my opacity on this one is such that I still can't see how the solution is related to convoluted wording in the first part of the clues. Ancient Vikings, Alaska, Uzbekistan, Kirin, etc. instead of more straightforward clues. Are these merely red herrings?
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#64

Post by Laura M »

I was a DNF, but I'm somewhat heartened that Joon was too...

I discarded the vitamins path early on because (as some have noted) squishy, and also there aren't very many of them, and what do you do with the different B-numbers? The first really promising thing I saw was "arterial blockage"/BYPASS and several other sort-of-similar pairings between the parentheticals and grid entries, as someone else commented on CrosswordFiend. But some of them had multiple possibilities and some had none, and the first letters didn't form anything recognizable either in clue order or grid order. I also tried adding or changing one letter in the grid entries; I thought I was onto something with PALER/PALEO and CRUSH/CRASH for diets but it didn't go any farther.

At least I didn't spend as much time on this one as I could have! Sometimes it's just not going to happen.
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DrTom
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#65

Post by DrTom »

I have to agree with all the folks who were led astray by this, as was I initially until I got a confirmation that one of my paths was fruitful (no pun intended, honest!). The problem is that for some of the foods mentioned the vitamin you "needed" was the predominant vitamin by weight but that was not universal. Bananas have LOTS of Vitamin C (about 20X that of B6) though in Matt's defense it is the highest RDA amount for that little yellow powerhouse.

Still, it is true that you could have solved the Meta by solving only 10 clues and that seems less convoluted than normal. However, please, a few weeks back there were theme entries that were anagramed states and if you got them and used the extra letter you got another anagram that was the answer (again dropping a letter) so there you didn't have to solve the grid either and nobody got on Matt for that. It was fun no matter what, and I know I can't make these (I do know cause I have tried and apparently I'm not very good at it). So, I am willing to give it a pass and wait for what is likely to be a complete disembowelment by crossword this Friday - I mean you've challenged him, what were you THINKING!!!
NUDGES!I am always willing to give nudges where needed; metas should be about fun, not frustration. Send me what you have done so far because often you are closer than you think!
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#66

Post by LesY »

Dr Tom for the win - as usual!
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#67

Post by Streroto »

@Dr Tom “complete disembowelment” LOL

That said I thought this was very good and very fair. Sometime it just makes sense I guess. I have spent plenty of time on the wrong side of a meta while others talk about how easy it is. This time I was lucky to see it.

As I posted on Joon’s site there is a clear path. Yes each food has multiple vitamins in it (good for us!!!). But only ONE of those vitamins matches the putative benefit in the clue. So it you look at it from both directions ie what vitamin is in carrots AND what vitamin promotes muscle growth there is only one answer. Put those together in order and you get BAKED A CAKE.

I am sure I will be back in the L column this weekend.

Stay well all
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MajordomoTom
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#68

Post by MajordomoTom »

another reason this one was squishy - if you think that bananas are a source of potassium (and go to the K) and mix up a few of the others, you wind up with the letters that I was able to anagram into the correct answer - for really the wrong path and reasons.

so ... again, onward to next week. (and I was a correct solver, just not a happy one)
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TMart
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#69

Post by TMart »

Once I got the idea of vitamins, I Googled “vitamins in...” for each food item and took the letter with the highest percentage. With a limited letter set of A, B, C, D, E and K, I thought the word CAKE must be there and the past tense of the prompt led me to guess BAKED A CAKE - ten letters that fit the question, and then Google some more for confirmation of each letter. Not quite as clear-cut as some others, but enough of Matt’s style to give me confidence to submit.
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#70

Post by Dplass »

I still don't see how y'all saw that the keystone was "vitamins".
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#71

Post by Streroto »

And that well might be the difference between solving quickly and not at all. In most of the posts above people have made the assumption that vitamin stands out. It came to me because of the way the clues were set up, linking a food to a health benefit which is often due to vitamins. But also admittedly, medical training may have helped here.

Since I have no musical training, I get slammed on the musical metas!!!
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Joe Ross
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#72

Post by Joe Ross »

Dplass wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:49 am I still don't see how y'all saw that the keystone was "vitamins".
Minerals and supplements aren't define by single letters, whereas vitamins are, albeit with numbers, to boot. Any answer is made up of letters & typically one letter per Theme Entry/Answer. :. vitamins.

The trick was to ignore the foods & search on which vitamins gave the parenthetical benefits. There still were many from which to choose, but it became clear that Matt was going for BAKE A CAKE. BAKE was easy enough to find.

Also, CAKE isn't typically thought of as a food with benefits, other than delicious, sugary, cakey deliciousness, so I found it difficult to think of any healthful foods that are typically baked*.

This is why I felt the puzzle was squishy. There were several variables. Maybe the variables made it a Week 3 puzzle?

(*Tell me "kale" or "zucchini" and I swear to you that I will scream loud enough to be heard all over the lower 48 and the settled areas of Canada. Use the words "Eat healthy!" and I promise to hunt you down, showing no remorse. Can you tell I've given up cake, lately, & that I've been poring over a Killer Sudoku that has been showing *me* no mercy?)
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FrankieHeck
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#73

Post by FrankieHeck »

Joe Ross wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:09 pm (*Tell me "kale" or "zucchini" and I swear to you that I will scream loud enough to be heard all over the lower 48 and the settled areas of Canada. Use the words "Eat healthy!" and I promise to hunt you down, showing no remorse. Can you tell I've given up cake, lately, & that I've been poring over a Killer Sudoku that has been showing *me* no mercy?)
I just had to pop in to let you know that I am currently chopping up a few cups of kale for a baked pasta dish that is really good! I don't actually like cake, but I'm no health nut. If I didn't have to feed my husband, I could largely live on (or perhaps live largely on) Utz Cheese Balls and potato chips with Heluva Good dip.
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#74

Post by Joe Ross »

FrankieHeck wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:04 pm I just had to pop in to let you know that I am currently chopping up a few cups of kale for a baked pasta dish that is really good! I don't actually like cake, but I'm no health nut. If I didn't have to feed my husband, I could largely live on (or perhaps live largely on) Utz Cheese Balls and potato chips with Heluva Good dip.
Mmm... Dip! I've an ongoing love affair with spinach artichoke dip.

Pasta & its sauces cure all evils. I'm a spinach in pasta nut, myself, finding kale to be too bitter. "KALE" was within the range of possibilities for "Good for You", but - seriously - who's mind would trip to BAKE (me some of that nice) KALE versus BAKE A CAKE?

Zucchini is right out! Vile weed!
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PLATELET 𝗱𝗼𝗻𝗼𝗿𝘀 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗿𝗮𝗿𝗲.
𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗻𝗲𝗲𝗱 𝗶𝘀 ENORMOUS 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗰𝗮𝗿𝗲:
𝟰𝟬% 𝗽𝗲𝗱𝗶𝗮𝘁𝗿𝗶𝗰,
𝟯𝟬% 𝗲𝗮𝗰𝗵, 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘁𝗮𝗰𝘁𝗶𝗰,
𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗰𝗮𝗻𝗰𝗲𝗿 & 𝘁𝗿𝗮𝘂𝗺𝗮. 𝗣𝗟𝗘𝗔𝗦𝗘 𝗦𝗛𝗔𝗥𝗘!
Dplass
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#75

Post by Dplass »

Joe Ross wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:09 pm
Dplass wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:49 am I still don't see how y'all saw that the keystone was "vitamins".
Minerals and supplements aren't define by single letters, whereas vitamins are, albeit with numbers, to boot. Any answer is made up of letters & typically one letter per Theme Entry/Answer. :. vitamins.

The trick was to ignore the foods & search on which vitamins gave the parenthetical benefits. There still were many from which to choose, but it became clear that Matt was going for BAKE A CAKE. BAKE was easy enough to find.

Also, CAKE isn't typically thought of as a food with benefits, other than delicious, sugary, cakey deliciousness, so I found it difficult to think of any healthful foods that are typically baked*.

This is why I felt the puzzle was squishy. There were several variables. Maybe the variables made it a Week 3 puzzle?

(*Tell me "kale" or "zucchini" and I swear to you that I will scream loud enough to be heard all over the lower 48 and the settled areas of Canada. Use the words "Eat healthy!" and I promise to hunt you down, showing no remorse. Can you tell I've given up cake, lately, & that I've been poring over a Killer Sudoku that has been showing *me* no mercy?)
"it clear that Matt was going for BAKE A CAKE. BAKE was easy enough to find" - still this assumes that you're dealing with vitamins, and that there was exactly one possible vitamin for each food.
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#76

Post by Joe Ross »

FrankieHeck wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:04 pm I could largely live on (or perhaps live largely on) Utz Cheese Balls and potato chips with Heluva Good dip.
This is your fault, BTW, as well as the Warsteiner Dunkel REQUIRED to wash it down.

Spinch Artichoke.gif


{Edit 1: Words have meanings.}
Last edited by Joe Ross on Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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FrankieHeck
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#77

Post by FrankieHeck »

Joe Ross wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:29 pm
FrankieHeck wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:04 pm I could largely live on (or perhaps live largely on) Utz Cheese Balls and potato chips with Heluva Good dip.
This is your fault, BTW, as well as the Warsteiner Dunkel used to wash it down.
I'll take the credit, not the blame.
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#78

Post by KayW »

FrankieHeck wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:04 pm
Joe Ross wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:09 pm (*Tell me "kale" or "zucchini" and I swear to you that I will scream loud enough to be heard all over the lower 48 and the settled areas of Canada. Use the words "Eat healthy!" and I promise to hunt you down, showing no remorse. Can you tell I've given up cake, lately, & that I've been poring over a Killer Sudoku that has been showing *me* no mercy?)
I just had to pop in to let you know that I am currently chopping up a few cups of kale for a baked pasta dish that is really good! I don't actually like cake, but I'm no health nut. If I didn't have to feed my husband, I could largely live on (or perhaps live largely on) Utz Cheese Balls and potato chips with Heluva Good dip.
Here's a kitchen tip: When cooking kale, always add some coconut oil. It makes it easier to scrape into the trash bin. ;)
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#79

Post by BarbaraK »

Dplass wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:49 am I still don't see how y'all saw that the keystone was "vitamins".
I didn’t for the first day or two - had all sorts of random nutrients on my list with multiple possibilities for most of the foods. And more research had my list growing not shrinking.

At some point I decided that this was nuts, there really was not one specific compound apiece, so there must be some other constraint, and vitamins seemed the only limited set. So took the ones I was most sure of (one of which ended up being wrong) filled in the blanks to make a phrase, and then backsolved to convince myself that they were all plausible.
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#80

Post by Big Mac »

A big 0'fer for me this past weekend.

Among the many things folks have already mentioned, I could not get "way" (whey) out of my head for "promotes muscle growth" and just got stuck on that path looking for homonyms, refusing to leave it for anything. Disappointing.
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