rjy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 11:10 am
Got the grid downs-only, no-instructions, but no daylight yet on the meta.
Before I spend inordinate time staring - is it even possible to solve without the prompt and/or across clues?
In my opinion: No.
But others may disagree with me.
Re: MGWCC #818 — "One More Time"
Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2024 6:25 pm
by woozy
rjy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 11:10 am
Got the grid downs-only, no-instructions, but no daylight yet on the meta.
Before I spend inordinate time staring - is it even possible to solve without the prompt and/or across clues?
No. It absolutely is not.
EDIT: Well, if you have telepathy and try every possible metanism possible and somehow have a quantum processor that only returns the one that is a correct metanism from all the other that hypothetically could be but are not (although you have no way to evaulate which is which you manage to do so anyway), well, then, yes, with difficulty and insight you might. But you do need a telepathic quantum processor. (Mine is in the shop... and it never worked right, anyway.)
rjy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 11:10 am
Got the grid downs-only, no-instructions, but no daylight yet on the meta.
Before I spend inordinate time staring - is it even possible to solve without the prompt and/or across clues?
No. It absolutely is not.
EDIT: Well, if you have telepathy and try every possible metanism possible and somehow have a quantum processor that only returns the one that is a correct metanism from all the other that hypothetically could be but are not (although you have no way to evaulate which is which you manage to do so anyway), well, then, yes, with difficulty and insight you might. But you do need a telepathic quantum processor. (Mine is in the shop... and it never worked right, anyway.)
Have you tried turning it off and on again?
Re: MGWCC #818 — "One More Time"
Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2024 7:20 pm
by mattythewsjpuzzler
Fun one! Haven't seen that particular metanism before but it took more than a casual glance. Perfect for week 1.
rjy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 11:10 am
Got the grid downs-only, no-instructions, but no daylight yet on the meta.
Before I spend inordinate time staring - is it even possible to solve without the prompt and/or across clues?
No. It absolutely is not.
EDIT: Well, if you have telepathy and try every possible metanism possible and somehow have a quantum processor that only returns the one that is a correct metanism from all the other that hypothetically could be but are not (although you have no way to evaulate which is which you manage to do so anyway), well, then, yes, with difficulty and insight you might. But you do need a telepathic quantum processor. (Mine is in the shop... and it never worked right, anyway.)
rjy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 11:10 am
Got the grid downs-only, no-instructions, but no daylight yet on the meta.
Before I spend inordinate time staring - is it even possible to solve without the prompt and/or across clues?
No. It absolutely is not.
EDIT: Well, if you have telepathy and try every possible metanism possible and somehow have a quantum processor that only returns the one that is a correct metanism from all the other that hypothetically could be but are not (although you have no way to evaulate which is which you manage to do so anyway), well, then, yes, with difficulty and insight you might. But you do need a telepathic quantum processor. (Mine is in the shop... and it never worked right, anyway.)
Have you tried turning it off and on again?
Well. I am afraid to do that. I wouldn't be able to tell if it's working unless I observed it and observing it would affect the outcome and I just can't take the risk that I'm going to cause it to break.
Re: MGWCC #818 — "One More Time"
Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2024 10:02 pm
by Kwyjibo
Beamed up!
Just like the wsj this week, stared at the grid on my phone since Friday; printed it out and saw the answer in minutes.
rjy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 11:10 am
Got the grid downs-only, no-instructions, but no daylight yet on the meta.
Before I spend inordinate time staring - is it even possible to solve without the prompt and/or across clues?
In my opinion: No.
But others may disagree with me.
Like others, I was able to complete the grid with downs only, no instructions, but got nowhere with the meta. I thought I knew what the metanism would be, but my idea led nowhere. I will be extremely impressed if anyone can do it, but it seems impossible to me.
rjy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 11:10 am
Got the grid downs-only, no-instructions, but no daylight yet on the meta.
Before I spend inordinate time staring - is it even possible to solve without the prompt and/or across clues?
In my opinion: No.
But others may disagree with me.
Like others, I was able to complete the grid with downs only, no instructions, but got nowhere with the meta. I thought I knew what the metanism would be, but my idea led nowhere. I will be extremely impressed if anyone can do it, but it seems impossible to me.
I was amused that HunterX thought others would disagree. I think anyone who has completed the meta would know it is utterly impossible because..... Well, maybe saying it is impossible is giving a spoiler as it's a hint where you have to look but... well, it *is* a week one-- Not a trivial it falls off the plate week one, but a hmm that was nice and not very hard at all week 1-- so I don't think anyone can be spoiled by that hint.
But I'm impressed you and HunterX are giving it the "it's feasible" option. It's not feasible
Like others, I was able to complete the grid with downs only, no instructions, but got nowhere with the meta. I thought I knew what the metanism would be, but my idea led nowhere. I will be extremely impressed if anyone can do it, but it seems impossible to me.
I was amused that HunterX thought others would disagree. I think anyone who has completed the meta would know it is utterly impossible because..... Well, maybe saying it is impossible is giving a spoiler as it's a hint where you have to look but... well, it *is* a week one-- Not a trivial it falls off the plate week one, but a hmm that was nice and not very hard at all week 1-- so I don't think anyone can be spoiled by that hint.
But I'm impressed you and HunterX are giving it the "it's feasible" option. It's not feasible
Agree... I'm guessing HunterX simply wanted to leave the door open that maaaaaaybe there's some backdoor way. Never say never. I left a similar door open just a crack in my comments to Matt on submission, but will wait and see. TBH I was somewhat unhappy to be invited to invest the time solving an unsolvable puzzle (I enjoy taking on the challenge of downs-only no-instructions to the point of submitting without ever looking at the prompt). Matt's earned benefit of the doubt so I'll wait until the contest closes, but at the moment... oof!
Re: MGWCC #818 — "One More Time"
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 2:04 pm
by woozy
Here's an idea. Let's play twenty questions. You can do it the easy way where you ask yes/no questions and I answer them. Or, we can do it the challenging way where you ask yes/no questions. That's it. The challenging way is that you ask questions. Good luck.
[FWIW. I take the downs only challenge simply as an open challenge. There's no obligation or implication that it will ever be solvable.]
Re: MGWCC #818 — "One More Time"
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 2:51 pm
by HoldThatThought
For the Week 1 puzzle in March, I will be attempting the ultimate challenge, and I invite all of you bold and adventurous solvers to join me in this endeavor.
I will attempt to solve both the grid, and the meta, with the clues from a randomly selected 2015 NYT puzzle, which will be revealed in an envelope that I will open, one hour before the submission deadline.
Who's up for this? Don't be shy.
Re: MGWCC #818 — "One More Time"
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 4:19 pm
by mkmf
On the issue of downs-only no-instructions solvability, I'm looking forward to Joon's blog tomorrow on Crossword Fiend. He usually tries to do it both ways.
I can see a way to success, and if anyone can do it, it'd be Joon.
Re: MGWCC #818 — "One More Time"
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 4:46 pm
by schmidzy
mkmf wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 4:19 pm
On the issue of downs-only no-instructions solvability, I'm looking forward to Joon's blog tomorrow on Crossword Fiend. He usually tries to do it both ways.
I can see a way to success, and if anyone can do it, it'd be Joon.
I, for one, would love to hear what you've got, if Joon doesn't cover it. I can't see any way at all to solve this one downs only — but I know Matt always thinks carefully about when to offer those options!
Re: MGWCC #818 — "One More Time"
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 7:58 pm
by mkmf
Whoops! I retract thinking that Joon - or anyone -could crack it that way. I hadn't looked at the grid for several days after solving the meta, and I remembered it wrong. Sorry!
EDIT: But of course, with backsolving from an inspired guess: maybe. I retract my retraction. Let's see.
mkmf wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 4:19 pm
On the issue of downs-only no-instructions solvability, I'm looking forward to Joon's blog tomorrow on Crossword Fiend. He usually tries to do it both ways.
I can see a way to success, and if anyone can do it, it'd be Joon.
I, for one, would love to hear what you've got, if Joon doesn't cover it. I can't see any way at all to solve this one downs only — but I know Matt always thinks carefully about when to offer those options!
Re: MGWCC #818 — "One More Time"
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:25 am
by HoldThatThought
For anyone who can't speak "sarcasm", there is absolutely no way that anyone can solve this meta with just the down clues.
For anyone who attempted it, Matt set you up for a fool's errand this week, and I wouldn't be shy about telling him so.
No way.
No how.
No chance.
Re: MGWCC #818 — "One More Time"
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:08 pm
by BrennerTJ
There is no downs-only version of this illustration...
Re: MGWCC #818 — "One More Time"
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:44 pm
by sharkicicles
NOT offering downs-only would have been a big clue that you need to look at the across clues, I figured. So kind of a rock and hard place for Matt.
Re: MGWCC #818 — "One More Time"
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 1:33 pm
by rjy
sharkicicles wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:44 pm
NOT offering downs-only would have been a big clue that you need to look at the across clues, I figured. So kind of a rock and hard place for Matt.
A rock for him, a hard place for me!
I get it, probably just an oversight on his part, but since he’s started this, he’s occasionally done a Week 1 without the extra options.
Leslie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 8:17 am
Like others, I was able to complete the grid with downs only, no instructions, but got nowhere with the meta. I thought I knew what the metanism would be, but my idea led nowhere. I will be extremely impressed if anyone can do it, but it seems impossible to me.
I was amused that HunterX thought others would disagree. I think anyone who has completed the meta would know it is utterly impossible because..... Well, maybe saying it is impossible is giving a spoiler as it's a hint where you have to look but... well, it *is* a week one-- Not a trivial it falls off the plate week one, but a hmm that was nice and not very hard at all week 1-- so I don't think anyone can be spoiled by that hint.
But I'm impressed you and HunterX are giving it the "it's feasible" option. It's not feasible
Agree... I'm guessing HunterX simply wanted to leave the door open that maaaaaaybe there's some backdoor way. Never say never. I left a similar door open just a crack in my comments to Matt on submission, but will wait and see. TBH I was somewhat unhappy to be invited to invest the time solving an unsolvable puzzle (I enjoy taking on the challenge of downs-only no-instructions to the point of submitting without ever looking at the prompt). Matt's earned benefit of the doubt so I'll wait until the contest closes, but at the moment... oof!
Okay. Actually, I thought perhaps someone would flag my post as being too much of a spoiler, in that saying you HAVE to use the across clues pretty much tells you that the metanism is hidden in the clues as opposed to the grid, and the across clues at that. So it was less "hedging my bets" that there was some secret alternate way to solve without the across clues, and more "I don't want to state it outright."
