Not my favorite, but I lack the arcane knowledge
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DBMiller wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 3:07 pm You know how in movies or TV when someone is being chased, or they're wanted by someone and they duck into a side street/alley/hallway, press themselves back to the wall and hope whoever is looking for them just passes on by without looking to the side? Well the rabbit did that to me, and I went right past him.
As I'm filling the grid, the thought of things being packed together fills my mind. The 5 (Wait 5? Not 8?) clues are starred. They do contain various words packed in them.
THERM/THERMITE/HERMIT/HERMITE
DEVIL/EVIL
STAR/START/TART
TOWER
LOVER/VERSE
But when I finally get to 62d, I know that TAROT cards are part of the metanism. I didn't realize the major arcana were ranked, and as I googled around, I come across some pages with pictures of various Tarot decks over the years. Oh... Which deck is Matt using? No idea at first. Will have to ponder it, but one deck has "The House of God", which looks like a tower - I'll lean towards one of the other variants that uses "The Tower" as the name.
So I'm looking at pictures of cards and write down...
Tarot Card Rank
---------- ----
The FOOL 0
The HERMIT (?)
The DEVIL (15?) LSA
The STAR (17?) [G]IN
The TOWER (16?) [H]AULER
The LOVERS (6?) [T]SA
Only the image of the major arcana cards I was looking at was very worn and used VIIII for nine, but the V and the first I wasn't legible, so I all saw was III and thought it was eight. Well 8d was SHELVE. So my first 5 letters are:
SIGHT
Power Pack. Power of what?
EYESIGHT?
FORESIGHT (9 letters)
PRESIGHT? the act or power of foreseeing
OUTSIGHT? the power or act of perceiving external things
Either of the last two are extremely possible. But why only 5 starred clues when we're looking for an eight-letter quality?
Well, when the grid isn't enough look to the clues! And I find three more Tarot references to the minor arcana suits.
World CUP cry - (39a) [O]LE
WAND wielding org - (6d) [T]SA
croation COIN - (25d) [E]URO
EIGHT+OTE=goethite?
To quote Charlie Brown from the Halloween show... "I got a rock". And extremely appropos, as I found there are things called "Prophecy Stones", and some of them are made of goethite!
https://www.amazon.com/Prophecy-Pseudom ... B09JN4YDG1
But Goethite isn't a quality. Although it's a mineral and what you find of it may be of varying quality, this just doesn't feel right. I try to put it out of my mind, but it's extremely difficult. I know Tarot is the right mechanism. How can these eight items not lead me to the solution?
Ok, there's a missing suit - SWORD - Anagram of WORDS Also in crosSWORD
(53a) WORDS from... - AYESIR
Do the words in the clues correspond to the grid?
CUP -> CUB?
WAND -> LAWN? WNBA?
COIN -> ENIAC
Are there other missing major arcana items?
The WORLD? (6d?) TSA (Repeat - Maybe there are two T's in the answer)
So I GOOGLE a little more, and that takes me to a list of the major arcana for various types of Tarot decks. OK... which one am I looking at? I narrow it down and see I've made a "major" mistake. The HERMIT has rank 9! Not 8! 9d is EAR, and SIGHT becomes EIGHT. EIGHT? That's the # of letters, why repeat that? And I resume looking for other major arcana in the grid or clues. Moon? Nope. Sun? Nope. Strength? Wait... what? Strength is #8 in some decks and #11 in others (It switches with Fortitude). But the deck I've now been using has it as #8 (And the deck that uses it as #11, has "The House of God", not "The Tower"). Was it that simple? Why didn't I find this page sooner and not mistake it as #9? Arrrrrgh.
So major arcana #8 is Strength. 8d starts with an S. And strength is a quality you can have. All tied up, nice and neat.
My rabbit hole for a day was missing the central themer, doing the other four (because how do you get from 5 to 8, right?!) and then getting the only 8-letter anagram from the first letter of the Tarot and the first letter of the grid answer which is - you guessed it - FISHNET. Duh.Collegetowngirl wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 12:32 pmSame! The tarot clue first got us to notice the words inside the theme answers on Friday.
Then looked at 62D again and realized there are numbers associated with the major arcana. Thanks to Wikipedia, got those and got to EIGHT on Saturday morning.
But then stuck. Spent a day and a half in rabbit holes trying to find 3 more letters to add to it. WEIGHT is a quality but only six letters. FREIGHT? Not a quality. And only seven letters. Etc.
Oh look there are many alliterative clues! “Pot pour” is too weird to not be connected. Most of them are using P! And SATE/SATIE and MARS/MAORIS are pairs with letters added! All the whole knowing that couldn’t be it. Metas don’t have two different puzzles going on. Then looked at the letters associated with multiples of eight in the grid. Or, because “power,” maybe it’s 2,4,16, 256?
Finally with two hours to spare, realized eight is a number too, sheesh. Looked it up on that same Wikipedia article from the day before.
No need to wait Trish, there is a meta almost every day, just check the “Other Meta Crosswords” section. We’ll get you TOTALLY addicted!!Trish wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 12:35 pm Fun seeing all the different things people focused on. Our limited experience has taught us to check everything that pops out. My husband noticed the tarot card names within the starred answers because 62d sparked his thoughts. We tried all sorts of things with the numbers on the cards after a google search. I finally thought of seeing what letter each number was on the grid and saw it spelled eight. We had already decided the answer must be strength because it was the only card that expressed a quality. Just needed to verify and low and behold… that was the number of the strength card! We were so proud! We have had so much fun with these puzzles and having this forum and the muggle zoom has added to our fun! We laugh at how obsessed we have become! Can’t wait for Thursdays!
mikeB wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 6:34 pm We bring personal resources to the solving of each meta: Innate problem-solving skills, general knowledge, meta-specific knowledge (accrued through experience on these puzzles), and perseverance. A shortfall in any of these resources can block the solving process. In this case, one needed to have some knowledge of Tarot decks, or game over. In my case, before this meta came along, all I knew about Tarot decks was that there were such things and that they related to something like astrology. My lack of knowledge thwarted my solving this one, but that’s the way it is with meta crossword puzzles. If it's not one thing, it's another. Am I any worse off if a knowledge gap does me in, versus missing a visible connection between entries and clues (or one of the many other mechanism elements)? By the way, the constructors must have all these same resources – and then some – to put these marvels together. Mr. Shenk and colleagues are to be applauded for that. And thanked.
Same! And then I saw that JUSTICE is also called “FAIRNESS” which is an “eight-letter quality” so I almost went with that but then I read some more and saw that “depending on the deck” STRENGTH is numbered VIII or XI. So I went with STRENGTH… seemed more straightforward!jenirvin wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 8:23 am Good grief. I got the Tarot theme right away, highlighted the numbers of the Major Arcana referenced, and... in my deck VIII is Justice (so down rabbit holes I went, never to return). Should have Googled to see that depending on the deck, it could also be Strength. Live and learn! Hats off to those who got to the right shore!
I actually followed the same basic path, and then once I saw the reference to the tarot deck, remembered that LOVERS was also a tarot card and it was off to the races (with the help of online pictures of the major arcana).TeaJenny wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 1:33 pm I only stumbled onto the correct path because I googled "hermit power," which led me straight to tarot cards. That's when 62D made sense. I was hung up on "thermite" for quite a while.
Not my favorite, but I lack the arcane knowledgeneeded to suss out this meta without resorting to the internet. I wonder if this is how people with no knowledge of sports feel when there's a sports themed puzzle?
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Lucky for me I would have to have heard of that in order to waste time on it